Hardware

K Core Processors

Posted 2 Jul 2008 at 14:43 UTC (updated 2 Jul 2008 at 16:32 UTC) by Rog-a-matic Share This

Intel is hinting at the possibility of a future with processors containing hundreds or even thousands of cores. While graphics applications seem to be driving much of this trend, I see the possibilities for robotics as truly monumental. Software development for real-time response and control of actuators and sensors has always been a bit awkward with asynchronous interrupts bumping into each-other and cumbersome state machine loops. A possible solution to this mess, and to a much-needed advancement in robot performance are multiple processor systems with additional processors providing centralized supervisory control. When that trend takes hold, a programmer will be able to instruct a mobility routine to approach the refrigerator using a group of processors dedicated to that task, and not risk crashing the battery monitoring routines in the process. It seems to me that the trend is more towards a massively parallel array of much simpler processors - something between neural networks of biological systems and the overburdened, highly complex, single-processor systems of today. Processors of the giant array can be simpler, slower and die without bringing down the whole system. The result will be a faster and more fault-tolerant system that is easier to program, and even cheaper to produce.


maybe good for neural net approaches, posted 2 Jul 2008 at 17:43 UTC by steve » (Master)

Parallel programming can be very difficult to do correctly and I wonder if most hobby robots are even at the point of utilizing the processor power we have now?

It's probably better software we need to make progress rather than more processor power. Not that I'm complaining, bad software also benefits from faster CPUs! :)

A 1k core chip might be great for neural net software. ANNs seems like a natural fit for a massively multi-core chip.

Intel's Cell, posted 2 Jul 2008 at 19:24 UTC by cjang » (Journeyer)

A CPU with lots of small cores sounds a lot like the STI Cell processor in the Playstation 3 and some supercomputers. It's an alternative to the GPU approach. Besides graphics, the obvious big application area will be signal processing.

multiprocessing programming, posted 2 Jul 2008 at 20:25 UTC by Rog-a-matic » (Master)

Trying to use a processor to its maximum capacity is exactly the problem, and results in overly complex code that is very delicate. This was necessary in 1982 when processors were expensive and power hungry, but this old philosophy is now working against us and we must abandon it to make more progress.

I'm not proposing throwing multiple CPUs at bad software. In fact, I'm an opponent of bad software :)

I've been a proponent of multiple processors in mobile robots for many years. My Trilobot uses several 8051s - one for the executive control, one for DC motor servoing, one for reading sensors. It's not the same problem as attempting to split up an otherwise single sequential task on a PC, and quite a bit easier to do with great returns at minimal costs. My ARobot also uses a coprocessor for motor control which frees the Stamp for high level stuff. This greatly increases its performance and ease of programming.

i 2 c hiccups, posted 2 Jul 2008 at 22:02 UTC by The Swirling Brain » (Master)

I too see the great benefits of multi-core processing. I've made a few main boards that have co-processor pics that talk via i2c that work great for offloading some task. Having all the cores in one package, though, would seem like a weird thread management problem. In some ways it would be cool and in other ways a big headache. I'm sure, though, with whatever platform you are stuck with, you can optimize it for your needs and get it managed. ...With these truths in mind: No realistic sized platform is bug free (whether software or hardware bug) so every platform has a bug. It is inevitable that your program will hit said bug. Your program will suffer adverse affects because of the bug. The deal is: how well does your platform cope with bugs? Self healing or some sort of crash management are nice features to have on your robot. Robots that go to mars have such things where they can go into safe mode and wait for fixes and such or manage to get around problems that are detected even when poked by cosmic particles. Future robotics will need these features to be serious contenders in the future to keep from becoming worthless piles of junk at the first brown-out or hiccup. Having said that, seeing a robot with flailing arms swirling around the room is always good for a chuckle.

Signal processing and graphics, posted 2 Jul 2008 at 22:27 UTC by steve » (Master)

Yep, those are other good uses for multi processors. The approach taken with multiple 8051s on the Trilobot might work too depending on how much independence there is in the cores. Can they operated completely asynchronously I wonder? It'll definitely be interesting to see what sort of hardware we get to play with over the next decade.

RISC rises from the ashes?, posted 3 Jul 2008 at 18:01 UTC by Nelson » (Journeyer)

Having previously worked for Intel for many years, I suspect that their approach will be to assemble an array of x86 cores, some of which will be augmented with instruction set extensions and hardware for graphics or signal processing.

This will present a market opportunity for other companies to pursue arrays with much larger numbers of smaller RISC cores. Such systems could be significantly more powerful than the Intel offering for high-bandwidth computation.

Where the transistor count growth curve once provided a temporary market opportunity for RISC, multi-core processor architecture can now provide a significant justification for very large numbers of simpler RISC cores.

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